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Post by Vanntubs on Mar 5, 2005 0:07:48 GMT -5
He killed his first person when he was 14. just thought that was interesting, he went from stealing chickens to dictator. my hero ;D jk.
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Post by seal on Mar 5, 2005 2:44:10 GMT -5
..... To being pulled out of a hole in the ground, covered in dirt, living among his own shit, by the one force he despised more than his own people.
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Post by gazzman on Mar 5, 2005 3:01:13 GMT -5
Saddam needed to be dealt with... North Korea is not a severe threat. Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! The leader if N. Korea (General What's His Nuts) has openly said that he has nuclear weapons and he's not afraid to use them on th US! Saddam (a very bad guy) didn't even have nukes!! Not a severe threat?!?!?!?!? Not quite...
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Post by seal on Mar 5, 2005 6:03:40 GMT -5
Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! The leader if N. Korea (General What's His Nuts) has openly said that he has nuclear weapons and he's not afraid to use them on th US! Saddam (a very bad guy) didn't even have nukes!! Not a severe threat?!?!?!?!? Not quite... They have at most 20 Nukes, likely of low yield. Honestly, it's not even sure that they could employ then against the US, excepting Alaska. The farthest they can reach for sure is the west coast. The US has 250 nukes just for North Korea, and I'm sure quite a few othe NATO/UN Countries have NK on thier target list. Launcing nukes at the US would achieve realtively little and bring about thier own destruction. Also, let it be known that outside a very pathetic nuclear arsenal, North Korea has no way to attack the continental US. Thier air force would be decimated before it made half the distance (especially since the F-22 is now going active), and the US Navy is simply without parallel. Saddam was in violation of half a dozen UN Sanctions voted for by the very countries that sherked the responsibility of enforcing them. Though the methods were horribly incorrect, the action was not.
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Post by NewbieStats on Mar 5, 2005 6:05:36 GMT -5
If i put alittle more attention into these things... Id probably fear more about North Korea then anyone else at this point... Iraq and Afganistan even if had anything that could blow up wouldnt even reach the US the only reason they could do it was our own power... Our own Society, Rules, Laws, and Transportation, our power trip, is what led to our miscalculation...
Altho speculation says we knew 9/11 was gonna happen, there was no sure thing that it would, and plus if they follow thru with that lawsuit towards those guys who said they knew and call them evil for knowing about 9/11 and not stopping it, why is that "Psychic" dude from hundreds of years ago famous for predicting it now?...
But North Korea is feeling a power trip... But that'll lead to their own miscalculations also... And even if north korea was stupid enough to use Nukes, id think they'd wanna try get on the Moon first... Who wants to blow up the planet they live on? LoL... Bush...
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Post by seal on Mar 5, 2005 15:10:24 GMT -5
Eh, no one person knew 100% that "9/11" was gonna happen.
Maybe one agency knew a date or method. Another knew some players, yet another knew a month, etc...
FBI, CIA, NSA and DIA, all deeply involved in foreign and domestic intelligence. Don't believe the Department of Homeland Security bullshit, these agencies are no where near total cooperation. Each one wants the headline "XXX agents head off attack, save lives."
Afghanistan is probably one of the greatest victories we've had... Notice how you don't hear much about it in tne news? That's always a good sign, there's nothing bad to report. What hurt us was the thought that we could just flatten Iraq without breaking stride. Iraq required far more soldiers than the powers that be sent.
If any recent engagement harkens back to Vietnam, it's this most recent war in Iraq. In vietnam we didn't have the necessary troops, causing those famous "hill battles." Fighting for weeks to clear a hill and then moving on, practically abandoning the hill they just battled to control.
There are not enough troops in Iraq to control a country of its size. Though the US and British troops in-country can easily defeat any opposing force in Iraq. What theycan't do is control all the terrain, and that's why we're in the situation that currently plagues us.
The war in Iraq, in that it was designed to remove Saddam from power, was just. What's unjust is the almost total lack of support from out allies and the UN. Saddam is famous for posturing for war and then backing down at the last second. It is doubted by no one that the US and Britain can destroy the forces within Iraq. What you've got to wonder is if Iraq already destroyed the force that is the UN.
He ignored sanctions, disobeyed inspectors and officials, constantly tried to break the no fly zone, Saddam mocked the UN. Unfortunately, it seems that these laws have no law enforcers. Until Bush, no one had really stood up to the UN and said "Saddam is breaking your laws and laughing at you while he does it, this should not and can not be allowed." It is in doing so that Bush gets some respect from me.
Why is it that this happened? Why on earth would the respectable, upstanding countries of the UN watch as a country that has been a thorn in our sides for decades broke yet another set of sanctions?
France: sold weapons to Iraq, weapons that KILLED US and British soldiers. They also had oil deals in place. If anything, France was the leader in having the sanctions dropped, attemtping to legalize the activities it was already hip-deep in.
Russia: sold weapons to Iraq. Remember the mumblings about the GPS scramblers that were supposed to break the lock of US and British ordinance? That was a Russian device, one that had no right to be in Iraq. Too bad it was a piece of shit / something we already had ways around. That thing would have been hot in first Gulf War.
These two countries, especially France, stand out because they're arrogant and stupid. I'm sure outher countries have backdoor dealings and such, some may not, but then the question remains: Why allow someone to break your laws?
So many people have been running around crying about this based on layers and layers of transparency. Weapons of mass destruction have yet to be discovered, well that sucks. It seriously weakens the credibility of the US government, military and intelligence agencies, but the fact is, Saddam did have WMDs. We missed thier removal or simply fucked up. I highly doubt a man like Collen Powell would stand up and lie to the UN. Though, we could always ask the thousands of Kurds that have tasted Sarin nerve gas is Saddam has any reservations about WMDs.
Once you get beyond the blunderings of the US (and Britain, I love how they get so little heat), the war in Iraq, Operation Iraqi Freedom, is just. I know quite a few soldiers, and they are furious about what they see, read and hear on the "news." The bombings, attacks and horrible things the news reports about Iraq are so unrepresentative of the actual atmosphere it's amazing. 90% of the "Iraqis" fighting US and British forces are insurgents. Syrians, Iranians... NOT Iraqis. All I hear from the soldiers I know are how people wave at them, wave flags, and smile. They have TV, cell phones, VCRs and in some cases superfluous things like running water, sewage and garbage disposal because of what the US and Britain have done.
The news reports what it wants to, and the news agencies are in a ratings battle. Just like FICTIONAL TV shows and movies, gunfire, explosions, pain, suffering and bloodshed draw and hold attention better than smiles, school-building, food-distribution and good will.
It's a fucking shame that the news agencies of this country cannot give then men and women of the armed forces of the United States of America the respect they deserve. Men and women that DIE protecting the rights and freedoms of these agencies to incorrectly portray thier LIVES, thier actions, all they stand for. The irony is so thick you could choke on it.
What's left? Ahh, right, North Korea. As I said before, they're no severe treat. All North Korea will achieve should they launch nukes is thier own destruction. It's cut and dry, simple at worst. North Korea has no way to severely strike the US. They can certainly attack our interests, and bases in asia, but that would do little. The USA's primary response to the launch of nuclear ordinace fron North Korea will likely be launched from a US Ohio class sub carrying nuclear missiles. Trident missiles are nasty motherfucks, accurate within feet-from what I understand, that constitutes a "direct hit" when you're using a nuclear warhead.
The US forces in South Korea, though weak in number, are some of the toughest soldiers in the US army. You have to have combat experience. To walk the DMZ (DeMilitarized Zone) you have to be over 6 feet tall. Were North Korea to try and breach the DMZ, they would have quite the fucking battle on thier hands. Considering US Naval and Air power would achieve superiority, they would be subject to air attacks within a very short time. Furthermore, the US Navy would be able to bombard the North Korean troops with cruise missiles and air attacks of thier own. As of late, the US Navy has been the primary source of US air power projection, and they are very good at it. No force of earth can do what the US Navy does as well as they do it.
North Korea would have a chance only if they used nuclear weapons, and that's where all bets are off, and they have NO chance. North Korea's only way to achieve what they need-a quick breach of the DMZ-is the thing that will surely bring about thier rapid destruction.
It is also rumored that the US troops in the DMZ have tactical nuclear weapons that they could deploy (or are INSTRUCTED to deploy) should NK try to breach the DMZ.
Finally, the US is having great success in the development of anti-ballistic missile technologies. Though the anti-ballistic misslies are questionable, they would surely down the majority of the incoming missiles, if not all of them. What does appear to be flawless is the Airborne Laser System.
So, even North Korea's sucker-punch attack, launching nuclear weapons at the continental US or US installations now comes under serious scrutiny.
Like I said, North Korea is not a severe threat.
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Post by Vanntubs on Mar 5, 2005 16:07:37 GMT -5
wow u used to many big words for me im not readin that!
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Post by gazzman on Mar 5, 2005 19:40:15 GMT -5
Didn't the US gov't also sell arms to Iraq? And helped put Saddam in power........ Why, yes! Yes they did!
NO war is just.......... unfortunately, sometimes necessary. Was Iraq necessary? Hmm.... I don't think so. It was an excuse to control one of the largest oil fields in the world. I don't think it any more complicated than that. Saddam just happened to gas 300,000 invaders and there's your excuse to go.
There are many more people far more nasty than Saddam in power today. They just don't happen to control a country sitting on so much oil.
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Post by seal on Mar 5, 2005 19:45:51 GMT -5
I can't deny that oil plays a great role in any political decisions im the Middle East... However, the US isn't so dependent on oil. OPEC needs the US just as much.
Though the USA's history with Iraq is far from pure, we didn't break sanctions we voted into being to make money.
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Post by gazzman on Mar 5, 2005 20:11:55 GMT -5
Afghanistan is probably one of the greatest victories we've had... Notice how you don't hear much about it in tne news? That's always a good sign, there's nothing bad to report. What hurt us was the thought that we could just flatten Iraq without breaking stride. Iraq required far more soldiers than the powers that be sent. There's nothing to report because nothing happened. That's not a victory. That's nothing. If any recent engagement harkens back to Vietnam, it's this most recent war in Iraq. In vietnam we didn't have the necessary troops, causing those famous "hill battles." Fighting for weeks to clear a hill and then moving on, practically abandoning the hill they just battled to control. The interesting thing about the vietnam war is that almost all of the battles that were fought were won by the US. The loss there had nothing to do with the military. It completely political. He ignored sanctions, disobeyed inspectors and officials, constantly tried to break the no fly zone, Saddam mocked the UN. Unfortunately, it seems that these laws have no law enforcers. Until Bush, no one had really stood up to the UN and said "Saddam is breaking your laws and laughing at you while he does it, this should not and can not be allowed." It is in doing so that Bush gets some respect from me. Ignoring sanctions and ignoring what other countries and the UN thinks is what Bush has done since day one. Everyone outside of the US sees this. Canada recently said they we will not support the US's missile defence shield technology. I don't nesessarily agree with this policy but it re-enforced w to me why alomost everyone one in the world hates US policy. The US gov't's attitude towards Canada's rejection was, 'We don't care. If we have to shoot missiles over your airspace we will and we won't ask for permission.' If any country in the world ever had that kind of attitude towards the states they would rick invasion. That's BULLSHIT! France: sold weapons to Iraq, weapons that KILLED US and British soldiers. They also had oil deals in place. If anything, France was the leader in having the sanctions dropped, attemtping to legalize the activities it was already hip-deep in. Thhe US also has sold arms to Saddam. US controlled companies *cough* Halliburton *cough* also have oil deals in place in Iraq. Russia: sold weapons to Iraq. Remember the mumblings about the GPS scramblers that were supposed to break the lock of US and British ordinance? That was a Russian device, one that had no right to be in Iraq. Too bad it was a piece of shit / something we already had ways around. That thing would have been hot in first Gulf War. Russian technology has always sucked. This is nothing new. But no one country has the right to tell another who they can and cannot deal with. These two countries, especially France, stand out because they're arrogant and stupid. Arrogant and stupid..... hmmmm...... these are words that most people in the world use to describe americans. but the fact is, Saddam did have WMDs. We missed thier removal or simply fucked up. I highly doubt a man like Collen Powell would stand up and lie to the UN. Huh? Wow seal! most of the other points in this post have some merit. This is crazed. Collin Powell is a politician. Like I said in an earlier post, politicians are professional liers. Kinda like lawyers which would explain why alot of politicians were once lawyers... Once you get beyond the blunderings of the US (and Britain, I love how they get so little heat), the war in Iraq, Operation Iraqi Freedom, is just. Like I just said, NO war is just. War has always been and will always be evil. I know quite a few soldiers, and they are furious about what they see, read and hear on the "news." The bombings, attacks and horrible things the news reports about Iraq are so unrepresentative of the actual atmosphere it's amazing. There hasn't been an objective news cast ever in the history of US newspapers, radio or television. 90% of the "Iraqis" fighting US and British forces are insurgents. Syrians, Iranians... NOT Iraqis. All I hear from the soldiers I know are how people wave at them, wave flags, and smile. I don't think it's quite as high as 90% but I've heard that. Most of the smiling people, though, are in the US/UK controlled area. Now these are people who did the same when Saddam was around too. Why are they smiling and waving? As not to create waves maybe? Who knows. It could be what they were told to do. They have TV, cell phones, VCRs and in some cases superfluous things like running water, sewage and garbage disposal because of what the US and Britain have done. Sorry Seal, I laughed out loud at this point. They had that before too! I work with an Iraqi who fled Saddam several years ago so I know this coming from someone who lived there and still has family there. The news reports what it wants to, and the news agencies are in a ratings battle. Just like FICTIONAL TV shows and movies, gunfire, explosions, pain, suffering and bloodshed draw and hold attention better than smiles, school-building, food-distribution and good will. It's a fucking shame that the news agencies of this country cannot give then men and women of the armed forces of the United States of America the respect they deserve. Men and women that DIE protecting the rights and freedoms of these agencies to incorrectly portray thier LIVES, thier actions, all they stand for. The irony is so thick you could choke on it. Didn't I already cover this? LOL! What's left? Ahh, right, North Korea. As I said before, they're no severe treat. All North Korea will achieve should they launch nukes is thier own destruction. It's cut and dry, simple at worst. North Korea has no way to severely strike the US. They can certainly attack our interests, and bases in asia, but that would do little. The USA's primary response to the launch of nuclear ordinace fron North Korea will likely be launched from a US Ohio class sub carrying nuclear missiles. Trident missiles are nasty motherfucks, accurate within feet-from what I understand, that constitutes a "direct hit" when you're using a nuclear warhead. The US forces in South Korea, though weak in number, are some of the toughest soldiers in the US army. You have to have combat experience. To walk the DMZ (DeMilitarized Zone) you have to be over 6 feet tall. Were North Korea to try and breach the DMZ, they would have quite the fucking battle on thier hands. Considering US Naval and Air power would achieve superiority, they would be subject to air attacks within a very short time. Furthermore, the US Navy would be able to bombard the North Korean troops with cruise missiles and air attacks of thier own. As of late, the US Navy has been the primary source of US air power projection, and they are very good at it. No force of earth can do what the US Navy does as well as they do it. North Korea would have a chance only if they used nuclear weapons, and that's where all bets are off, and they have NO chance. North Korea's only way to achieve what they need-a quick breach of the DMZ-is the thing that will surely bring about thier rapid destruction. It is also rumored that the US troops in the DMZ have tactical nuclear weapons that they could deploy (or are INSTRUCTED to deploy) should NK try to breach the DMZ. Finally, the US is having great success in the development of anti-ballistic missile technologies. Though the anti-ballistic misslies are questionable, they would surely down the majority of the incoming missiles, if not all of them. What does appear to be flawless is the Airborne Laser System. So, even North Korea's sucker-punch attack, launching nuclear weapons at the continental US or US installations now comes under serious scrutiny. Like I said, North Korea is not a severe threat. The fact they even have nukes makes them a bigger threat than Saddam.
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Post by JoeBlake on Mar 6, 2005 2:35:50 GMT -5
For the last one of Gazz's I agree quite simply. 'Cause one Nuke can and probably will start a Nuclear war...
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Post by Vanntubs on Mar 6, 2005 15:05:47 GMT -5
Well my daddy could fight your daddy and win!
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Post by Eeyore on Mar 6, 2005 19:22:29 GMT -5
Too much politics for me. Plus from what I've learned over the past few months about ppl is that nobody is honest. So if all these "selling guns" and "who's got your back" and all these secrets are going around...imagine the ones we don't know about!!
I say, let these people who need to have control over economy fight it out, and if they blow up the world, oh well shit happens.
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Post by Vanntubs on Mar 6, 2005 19:51:32 GMT -5
Too much politics for me. Plus from what I've learned over the past few months about ppl is that nobody is honest. So if all these "selling guns" and "who's got your back" and all these secrets are going around...imagine the ones we don't know about!! I say, let these people who need to have control over economy fight it out, and if they blow up the world, oh well shit happens. Lets jsut hope thats not anytime soon!
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Post by whiterussia on Mar 6, 2005 22:32:53 GMT -5
From reading all that shit my brain really hurts!
All I know is bush dug us a hole and the shovel just fucking broke! and no one wants to give us a helping hand(can't blame them).
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